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>Don White Debates An American Communist


The following is from a debate I had with an American Communist:

Capitalism has risen out of “the American Dream”. You work, I work. We get different amounts of money and can afford different things.

But to listen to my Communist friend and many Obama people, “Capitalism is run off of greed. That is why it works.” Both Communism and Obama’s government want to level the playing field. They would destroy the wealthy class to lift the poor to middle class.

Here’s what I said to the Communist: “What is wrong about people wanting to increase their standard of living, or to be wealthy? I was born at the height of the Great Depression. No one wants to go back to that meager existence. I know what it’s like to expect my dad home at a certain hour to take us to the park, and he doesn’t show up because he’s obligated to work four hours overtime just to keep our family going.

“I believe Capitalism is driven by a desire to better one’s self. Sure there is greed. But there is greed in every system of government, including Obama-style socialism, and Stalin-style Communism. You can have both of those types of governance, I don’t want anything to do with them. But Obama is forcing socialism onto us, despite the fact the Congressional Budget Office has said his stimulus packages are hurting, not helping, America. Stop and think, Communism lovers and Mr. President. If you’re hurting America one of two things are true. Either you don’t know what you’re doing, (specifically, Tim Gaithner doesn’t) or you do. And if you do, you are a traitor and should be taken out and spanked on the floor of the Senate – or at least placed in a mental hospital because you don’t know what you have.

“Human nature is to want more. Always want more, and capitalism allows a person to do that. Different jobs pay different amounts and people can sell differently priced products. In Capitalism, there will always be a class system.”

“But that’s evil. It’s not fair to the poor,” my Communist friend says. “Classes are inherently evil.”

Me: “Not so, and here’s why: In life there are people willing to work twenty hours a week and those willing to work 80 hours a week. This is a self-imposed class system and you can’t get away from it.”

Him: “We could force it on people. Like they do in China.”

Me: “But at what cost?”

Him: “Just look at the mess America is in today, and who has the money Obama will be forced to borrow? It’s China. So, in essence, which system failed and which excelled? China’s Communism won the “Economic Cold War,” wouldn’t you say?”

Me: “Not at all. This is only a recession, not the end of the world. The game’s not over. The final tally is still to come. When government tries to impose sameness on a people, they destroy those peoples’ incentive and curtail their freedom and inventiveness. Why is America the greatest country on earth? It’s because of human productivity – the highest in the world. It’s because of our schools of higher learning and our inventiveness. Look at the long list of Nobel Prize recipients if you don’t believe me. America has the brain power.

Him: “Unfortunately for your argument, the Obama people believe — and so do we Communists — that when you want to work harder, it’s only greed that drives you. It’s so you may climb higher up on the ladder of success.”

Me: ‘But what about those who don’t want to work at all? No matter how hard you try to extinguish it, there will always be people who can afford more or own more. This is the class system, and in my opinion it is not unfortunate, and it isn’t something we should be out to change. Hard working people don’t have a duty to give to the lazy unless they want to. This is what Obama is about. Like the Chinese Communists, he wants to force upon us charity. But you know what? Charity comes from the heart. It can’t be forced. Government can never do charity by using your money and mine to give to the poor.”

Him: “Why not. It’s done all over the world. Even in America, or haven’t you noticed.”

Me: “That’s known as confiscation of your money and a dole or a handout. Government has no money, except that extorted from the people. Thus, it doesn’t have charity. It mere has your tax dollars which it doles out and mandates.”

Now, let’s dig in on where these two different systems work:

Me: “The nut cases believe that Communism is a “community government” and that this system actually works.”

Him: “Sure it does, but there are some real thinkers who agree with me and they’re not nut cases.”

Me: “I sincerely apologize for that characterization. That was unfair of me.”

Him: “They, the intellectuals of Communism, think we are just not at the right time for it.”

Me:News flash: Obama will force Communism on us and make it the right time and won’t we be sorry we touted this as an ideal system, which it’s not.”

Him: “Back before currency and economy, this is how things were done.

Me: “Yeah, if you want to go back to the Dark Ages, it may have been that way. But even then they had classes. The aristocracy and the common folks”

Him:. “But people were more focused on surviving rather than enjoying. People worked because if they didn’t, they could not live. People used their individual talents to help the community survive and work more efficiently. Now, fast forward a couple thousand years. 1919, the Russian government is overthrown and turned to Communism. Why didn’t it work as expected? People were no longer focused on surviving. They knew how easily they could survive, so rather than just working to live, they worked to get more. Greed. To have more. Unfortunately, this is where modern Communism failed.”

Me: “So you admit Communism has failed?”

Him: “Yes, in Russia. It actually imploded, just like American Capitalism has imploded today.”

Me: “So you believe we will never see Capitalism as we did for the past 300 years in America and Europe? That it will be exchanged for some form of Chinese Communism, which is a mixture of the old Capitalism and repressive Communism?

Him: “Yes, it’s happening right before our eyes. Capitalism, under Obama, is crumbling. It will never be the same. He is a dixctator in disguise.”

Me: “So, finally, we agree on something. That Obama is creating a repressive, one-party form of government?

Him: “Certainly. Everything points to it. His open borders invite millions to come in — all of whom will become Democrats because they are the poor from other nations, particularly south of the border.”

Me: “I can’t believe you see it too.”

Him: “Every thinking person sees it. Communism in America is inevitable. Obama is making it so. His desire and efforts to create a one class society in the U.S. is the best evidence.”

Me: “I don’t for a minute believe that our creator made us all to be common folk. He endowed us with Godly attributes, a brain and a spirit, so that we could read, think, create, and help other people. America has the most creative people on earth today. It is America and its people who do the most public good for the poor, or haven’t you seen the statistics?”

Him: “Yes, but it’s all changing before your eyes.People in a Communist society cannot get better nor worse. They have what they are given by the government and nothing more.”

Me: “That’s another thing I object to. Governments don’t have anything they haven’t taken from the people. Governments don’t produce wealth, people do. Never, Never, Never attribute powerful success with government. They are impediments to progress, not the cause of it.

But my friend said that China has created a new form of Communism that does actually work. He called it Capitalistic Communism. (Our debate ended with me lecturing him on Communism and him sitting there taking it in. He listened politely and nodded at things that he already had heard, but that for some crazy reason that he and other Communists don’t believe pertinent.)

Sure it does. Is that why they are the most repressive regime on the face of the earth? Is that why so many people are in jail and treated so poorly? The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 culminating in the Tiananmen Square Massacre (referred to in Chinese as the June Fourth Incident, to avoid confusion with two other Tiananmen Square protests) were a series of demonstrations in and near Tiananmen Square in Beijing in the People’s Republic of China (PRC) between April 14 and June 4 1989. They were mainly led by Beijing students and intellectuals. The protests occurred in a year that saw the collapse of a number of communist governments around the world.

The protests were sparked by the death of pro-market and pro-democracy official, Hu Yaobang, whom protesters wanted to mourn. By the eve of Hu’s funeral, it had reached 100,000 people on the Tiananmen square. While the protests lacked a unified cause or leadership, participants were generally against the government’s authoritarianism and voiced calls for economic change and democratic reform within the structure of the government. The demonstrations centered on Tiananmen Square in Beijing, but large-scale protests also occurred in cities throughout China, including Shanghai, which stayed peaceful throughout the protests.

China switched from a fully Communist economy to a mixed economy where the government may own companies but also allows for capitalism. This is widely seen as the best move in China’s history.

Him: “The United States is reluctant to admit that this type of government does actually wor.”

Me: “I will have to admit that the Chinese leaders, using threat and coercion, have mastered, manipulated, and controlled their people. Chinese are not free, and they will never be free under their current government. My friend, if you want to live this way I suggest you go to China and live under their beautiful system of government and their Capitalism. In your favor, however, I will say they have taught their people something that we don’t seem to be able to do – that is to save their money. Our savings rate is one of the lowest in the world. That’s one reason we are a debtor nation, instead of a creditor nation like China and like we were 30 or even 20 years ago.”

But my Communist friend is bent on extolling the virtues of China’s Communism and rejecting Capitalism.

Him: “Capitalism the opposite of where Communism works. For Capitalism, you need to be more focused on leisure and enjoying life.”

Me: “That’s true to an extent. We have more free time than any country on earth. It’s both a blessing and a curse. But it does leave us available for service in our churches to help others.”

Him: “No, it only gives you the time to create the greed that fuels the economy. This is why capitalism works now, we have come to a point where we have so much time on our hands that we can wish all that we want. We are seeing downward trend in Capitalism.

Me: “I would agree wholeheartedly, especially since the advent of King Obama in the Oval Office. We all now have enough time so that we can create some noise against this man. Yes, over time we will see how Obama’s ideas will affect the economy in the future, and we will just have to keep watching and making adjustments, if our self-appointed king and savior will allow it. Meanwhile, friend, believe what the CBO said, about how the stimulus package will hurt, not help, our failing economy.